Discussion Wall
This is the place to discuss the proposal, ask questions, make comments, and generally tell us what you think.
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Alternatively, if you have a question or comment but you would prefer it not to appear on the discussion wall, you can send us a message.
"I agree!!
Also siting the 'ropes' in Llandegla would make more sense - better carparking, roads and the mountain bikes have made it a no go area already for us walkers!!!!"
Posted by mary on 12 February 2010
"We have not chosen the proposed site lightly. Not only will it be a great course for any potential participants, it also means that the public purse can directly benefit from any success. This is because the site would be on Forestry Commission land, to whom a percentage of turnover will be paid, rather than to a private company at Llandegla."
Posted by Zip Wild on 12 February 2010
"I am a North Wales resident, live in an area of great natural beauty similar to Moel Famau and have enjoyed walking in the peace of the Moel Famau area since childhood. Why is it that the prevailing obsession with enhanced excitement and thrill-seeking always seems to involve cluttering up nature with unnecessary equipment and brings a faster pace of life that has no place in the country.
This type of "adventure" park needs to be built in the cities and towns that have already been ruined forever and whose inhabitants seem to be the ones who most want these type of thrills. Why spoil our countryside when this kind of thing can be built where it belongs.
The rural heritage of Britain is underthreat. Our cottages are being gentrified out of all recognition, squeezing out local people who cannot afford the inflated prices this causes. Our wildlife is under threat from more and more ludicrous developments, this one included. Our ancient historic sites are being wrecked by trail and mountain bikers, the police have a special phone line set up to try to get people to report such things and now you are proposing to bring this lunacy to the Mountain of the Mothers. I can only hope that Blodeuwedd, Arianrhod and Ceridwen, after whom Moel Famau is named summon their forces to protect this special place of Welsh Cultural and Historic heritage."
Posted by ruth on 12 February 2010
"Thank you for your comments. The point of our courses are that they are a naturally thrilling experience. I hope that if you do experience a Go Ape site (for example, in Delamere Forest), you will agree that it does not spoil the countryside.
While this is not the forum to discuss the gentrification of cottages, we would point out that creating local jobs and bringing money into the area will help the local community.
"
Posted by Zip Wild on 12 February 2010
"some of you are very naive.
I have been involved in conservation and the like for over 30 years. I have seen the same arguments you use put forward in the 1980's for allowing mountainbikes into our countryside - what happened? They DID NOT stay on designated paths but ruined vast tracts of the countryside and are still doing so. Your venture will have similar repercussions, e.g. you say you will run vehicles from the car park to the play area, if vehicles are regularly using forest tracks then this will give carte blance for other vehicles to do the same (4 x 4 drivers are the same destructive mentality as mountain bikers).
The GoApe centre, is it manned 24/7? if not you will need to fence it off to prevent idiots trashing the place - this happens all through the country parks so I am speaking from experience.
Where are people going to park?? Denbigh council and associated bodies are already trying to STOP vehicles illegally and dangerously parking on the busy roads. At weekends and school hols the car parks at Loggerheads and moel Famau are full. Does your plan envisage building more car parking??? or is this the carrot you are offering the council in order to gain favour for the GoApe project???
"
Posted by mary on 12 February 2010
"Thank you for your comments. We are sorry that you hold our courses in such low esteem. We are very proud in running a well managed experience, so that our participants do stay on paths, do not drop litter and so on.
Regarding the vehicular access on the forestry roads, there will be no access for the public (there are locked gates at the entry points), with only one branded vehicle in use. It should be pointed out that there are already people with rights of access.
The centre won't be manned 24/7, but we have systems in place to stop people accessing the wires. We won't fence the area off, as we don't want to stop anyone else using this area.
We propose that people will park in the lower car park, where the cabin is located. We are indeed funding the improvement of this car park over and above our needs, which is something the FC have wanted to do for a long time. "
Posted by Zip Wild on 12 February 2010
"I've seen Go Ape at Grizedale Forest on a sunny autumn Saturday so I know the type of crowds such a venture will draw.
Walkers who enjoy the peace and quiet of the woods are being squeezed out by the greed of Forest Enterprise - the same organisation that will not provide litter bins as it would have to pay to have them emptied; and the Go Ape organisation.
And yes there is a yob culture already visible in the woods at weekends and during school holidays which is eveident by the tyre tracks along the paths formerly only for walkers and litter, including soiled baby nappies, along the pathways.
Just walk any pathway on a Monday (or the Tuesday after a Bank Holiday) and you can't miss the litter.
I strongly object to increased traffic on the logging road, which would have to be surfaced to provide all year access, and constant traffic on that roadway would be a danger to cyclists as well as pedestrians.
I don't believe the access roads can cope with addfitional traffic at peak times and parking along the roadside by people who won't pay £1 is a problem most weekends.
Having spent a lot of time and effort removing some of the trees to return the land to moorland and re-introduce the Black Grouse to the area, this will be a retrograde step.
Please leave a beautiful woodland to people who love it and love walking the the hills.
Walkers have already been squeezed out of Llandegla Forest by the mountain bikers who claim we have no right to walk the paths there, so why not put your tourist attraction there?
"
Posted by Brenda on 11 February 2010
"Thank you for your comments. We are sorry that you feel that Go Ape has this effect. I would say, though, that a lot of the impacts you describe will have nothing to do with Go Ape participants. Regarding litter, ours is a well managed activity, and we take pride in the area of forest we operate in.
We understand there is some concern regarding traffic and parking. We will be addressing both in any application.
It is important to note that we do not restrict any access to other park users."
Posted by Zip Wild on 12 February 2010
"What a fantastic idea to bring a new and exiciting project to the area. It's time to move forward with something which will promote the area to a new group of people which can only be a good thing for local businesses in this current economic climate. Provided the project is developed in line with the surrounding countryside I think there is room for everyone."
Posted by Amanda on 11 February 2010
"Having read the comments so far, I am saddened to see people judging potential visitors as 'Yobs'. As a family orietated person I think it's unfair and makes you appear unreasonable. I have lived locally all my life and visited Moel Famau since I was tiny. I support progress and Go Ape."
Posted by Kerry on 11 February 2010
"Further to my earlier views on this, there are obvious advantages to such developments and they can work in harmony with the surroundings if done properly.
What I'm concerned with is why Moel Famau? The counties in Northeast Wales are filled with wooded hillsides, many of which already cater for outdoor sports and pursuits. The forest at Llandegla, for instance, would be an ideal location because the facilities and infrastructure are already in existence.
Moel Famau is probably the most well-known countryside park of its type in Northeast Wales, well-known to people from across North Wales and the Northwest of England. The cynic in me is telling me that Go Ape is merely looking to cash in on the name of Moel Famau because, let's face it, profit is the main reason any business exists. If people have heard of the countryside icon, then they're more likely to stumble across the development too. Go Ape would be welcome in Northeast Wales, I'm sure, but why cite it in an area which is highly sensitive, beautiful and attracts people for what it is? Plant it in a woodland outside of an AONB, perhaps closer to an urban area of where outdoor pursuits already utilise the woodland.
The discussion wall instructions suggest we can ask questions here, so I'm guessing Go Ape may attempt to answer them.... So, my question is, why Moel Famau? Would you consider looking at other less environmentally sensitive and more accessible hillside woodlands in Northeast Wales, before making firm plans? I would suggest that you risk making your environmentally-friendly image by burying yourselves deep in an area so widely acclaimed for its natural, unspoilt beauty."
Posted by Brendan on 11 February 2010
"Thanks for your comment. We believe that the proposed experience will add to the area, not detract. It allows people a new way to experience this area, as well as attracting new users to the country park. We are also confident that our courses are very low impact environmentally."
Posted by Zip Wild on 12 February 2010
"Re:moel Famau
NO WAY, I am sick of us in the countryside coping with the aftermath of careless visitors WITHOUT attracting more and more of the wrong sort of people. This kind of project attracts the 'yob' element and the increased traffic/noise/litter is unacceptable. We who live and work and shop in the area 24/7 deserve a voice - LEAVE the country park for those who want peace and quiet. If you don't believe me look at areas that got such a project (nearest is Delamere Forest in Cheshire) - now more like a day at Trafford park then a beautiful area to walk in)."
Posted by mary on 11 February 2010
"Thanks for your feedback. We're very sorry you feel this way about the proposal. In our experience, Go Ape attracts a range of participants, including families, groups of friends, youth groups and so on. At Zip Wild groups of participants will be led around the course by an instructor so we would not expect any 'yobbish' behaviour or litter problems to arise as our staff are often local and take pride in their working environment."
Posted by Zip Wild on 11 February 2010
"How are people meant to get to point (1) on the map and back from point (5)? This is a long distance to expect people to walk. Surely you must be planning a "shuttle bus" which will disrupt this as a walking/cycling/horse riding route?
Also, why is the visitor cabin so far away from the car park - the road from Llanferres to the site is a small, steep singletrack road with few passing places. This road would be unable to cope with even the "small" traffic increases you are suggesting."
Posted by Dyfan on 10 February 2010
"Thank you for your comments. The proposal includes a shuttle between the cabin and the valley, using the existing Forestry roads. We are working with the Forestry Commission to ensure any proposals will have a minimal impact on this shared access.
In terms of the cabin, it is proposed to be located in the Coed Moel Famau car park, using the existing facilities. We are aware that traffic is a concern, and this will be addressed in any planning application."
Posted by Zip Wild on 11 February 2010
"Appalling idea. Will attract the wrong sort of people to the peace and quiet of the beautiful area. There are fewer and fewer places where you can find silence to enjoy the sounds of nature. This will attract people who think of themselves as "extreme" sportsmen. Horrified. I will put in a formal objection if it goes ahead. Why can't it be part of the Llandegla country park project? Or better still in a town or citycentre? Why somewhere unspoilt? Next stop a Macdonalds?"
Posted by c on 10 February 2010
"Thank you for your comments. In our experience, Go Ape attracts a range of participants, including families, groups of friends, youth groups and so on. The course is not designed to be an extreme sport. Indeed, it will be a wonderful way to experience the natural landscape from a new angle.
"
Posted by Zip Wild on 11 February 2010
